    Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)                         L. Eggert
    Request for Comments: 6771                                        NetApp
    Category: Informational                                     G. Camarillo
    ISSN: 2070-1721                                                 Ericsson
                                                                October 2012

         Considerations for Having a Successful "Bar BOF" Side Meeting

    Abstract

       New work is typically brought to the IETF by a group of interested
       individuals.  IETF meetings are a convenient place for such groups to
       hold informal get-togethers to discuss and develop their ideas.  Such
       side meetings, which are not reflected in the IETF meeting agenda and
       have no official status, are often half-jokingly referred to as "bar
       BOF" sessions to acknowledge that some of them may eventually lead to
       a proposal for an official IETF BOF ("birds of a feather" session) on
       a given topic.

       During recent IETF meetings, many such "bar BOF" get-togethers have
       been organized and moderated in ways that made them increasingly
       indistinguishable from official IETF BOFs or sometimes even IETF
       working group meetings.

       This document argues that this recent trend is not helpful in
       reaching the ultimate goal of many of these get-togethers, i.e., to
       efficiently discuss and develop ideas for new IETF work.  It
       encourages the organizers to consider the benefits of holding them in
       much less formal settings and to also consider alternative means to
       develop their ideas.  This document also recommends that the
       community abandon the term "bar BOF" and instead use other terms such
       as "side meeting", in order to stress the unofficial nature of these
       get-togethers.

    Status of This Memo

       This document is not an Internet Standards Track specification; it is
       published for informational purposes.

       This document is a product of the Internet Engineering Task Force
       (IETF).  It represents the consensus of the IETF community.  It has
       received public review and has been approved for publication by the
       Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG).  Not all documents
       approved by the IESG are a candidate for any level of Internet
       Standard; see Section 2 of RFC 5741.

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    RFC 6771            Successful Bar BOF Side Meetings        October 2012

       Information about the current status of this document, any errata,
       and how to provide feedback on it may be obtained at
       http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6771.

    Copyright Notice

       Copyright (c) 2012 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the
       document authors.  All rights reserved.

       This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal
       Provisions Relating to IETF Documents
       (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of
       publication of this document.  Please review these documents
       carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect
       to this document.  Code Components extracted from this document must
       include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of
       the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as
       described in the Simplified BSD License.

    1.  Introduction

       A typical IETF meeting is full of sessions of different kinds.  In
       addition to official IETF and IRTF sessions listed in the meeting
       agenda (such as working and research group meetings, area meetings,
       or plenaries), many other unofficial meetings take place.  These
       include meetings between IETF participants from one organization or
       company, design team meetings, Internet-Draft editing sessions,
       interoperability testing, directorate lunches, and many others.

       Some of these unofficial get-togethers are organized by individual
       participants with a common interest in initiating new IETF work of
       some kind.  New IETF work often fits into an existing working group
       and does not require an official "birds of a feather" (BOF) session
       [RFC5434] to determine community consensus.  Nevertheless, the phrase
       "bar BOF" has commonly been used in the community when talking about
       such informal get-togethers that are held to discuss potential new
       work.  [RFC4677] (which has been obsoleted by [RFC6722])
       characterizes a "bar BOF" as

          an unofficial get-together, usually in the late evening, during
          which a lot of work gets done over drinks.  Bar BOFs spring up in
          many different places around an IETF meeting, such as restaurants,
          coffee shops, and (if we are so lucky) pools.

       During recent IETF meetings, "bar BOFs" have become increasingly
       indistinguishable from official IETF BOFs or sometimes even IETF
       working group meetings.  The symptoms of this trend are unofficial
       "bar BOFs" that are held in regular IETF meeting rooms with

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       classroom-style seating, agendas with lengthy slide presentations,
       use of microphone lines, and even formal consensus calls.  And,
       perhaps most importantly, such meetings have a distinct lack of
       drinks.

       This document argues that this trend is not helpful in reaching the
       ultimate goal of many of these get-togethers, i.e., to brainstorm
       about a technical topic that may eventually lead to new IETF work.
       It encourages the organizers of these unofficial get-togethers to
       consider the benefits of holding them in much less formal settings.

       This document also recommends that the community abandon the term
       "bar BOF".  The distinction between a BOF, i.e., an official IETF
       activity, and a "bar BOF", i.e., an unofficial get-together, is lost
       on many IETF participants, especially newcomers.  The similarity in
       terms has even caused confusion to the point where some participants
       believe that a "bar BOF" is a required step in the IETF process in
       order to apply for an official BOF, which is obviously false.  For
       these reasons, the remainder of this document will use the term "side
       meeting" instead and recommends that the community do the same, in
       order to stress the unofficial nature of these get-togethers.

       Before going into more detailed advice on how to hold side meetings,
       it is important to remember that many participants are extremely busy
       during an IETF meeting.  Although having a side meeting to discuss an
       idea in an informal face-to-face setting is attractive, the
       scheduling of such meetings is very difficult and needs to happen
       weeks, if not months, prior to the meeting itself.  Conference calls,
       email discussions, wikis, jabber group chats, and other ways for
       interacting are also effective at developing ideas and easier to
       schedule.

    2.  How to Invite

       A good rule of thumb is that a side meeting to discuss and develop a
       proposal for new IETF work should include the necessary participants
       to achieve that purpose and no more.  Smaller meetings are usually
       more successful than larger meetings.

       Hence, it is often useful to limit attendance carefully.  Publicly
       broadcasting an announcement for a side meeting on a particular
       topic, e.g., on an IETF mailing list, is therefore not usually a good
       method of inviting the desired set of participants.

       One reason is that if the announcement happens to attract a large
       response, the logistics of organizing a side meeting for a larger
       group quickly becomes very difficult.  Small groups fit comfortably
       around a table at a bar or a restaurant or can find a quiet corner in

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       an IETF hallway for a discussion.  Larger groups require dedicated
       meeting facilities, which are limited during IETF meetings, and they
       generally require much more careful planning in order to get work
       done.

       When publicly announcing a side meeting, it is often not even
       possible for the organizers to determine how large the resulting get-
       together will be, forcing them to over-provision for the "best case"
       of a substantial attendance, even in cases where this turns out to be
       not necessary.  And even when a large group comes together, it often
       mostly consists of "tourists".  Tourists usually do not actively
       participate in the get-together at all, or they participate with an
       intent to learn about a topic, which can derail a planned discussion
       of specific issues and turn it into a tutorial.  The attendance of
       tourists requires finding a larger room and makes the interactions
       between the active participants more cumbersome, e.g., because
       microphones need to be used in larger rooms.  There are times to
       expose new ideas to a broader community, but think carefully before
       publicly announcing a side meeting.

       So while publicly announcing a side meeting can be useful in order to
       gather interested people for a discussion, it often makes sense to
       still limit attendance.  For example, an announcement could say, "We
       have a table reserved at restaurant X for Y people.  If you are
       interested in attending, please briefly explain how you will
       contribute to the discussion we are planning to have".  If more than
       Y people respond, the organizers make a selection.

       Selecting or specifically inviting IESG or IAB members is not
       necessary and may not even be advisable in many cases.  Some ideas
       need time to form before they result in anything cohesive, and a side
       meeting is a good time to develop new ideas.  It is usually most
       useful to approach Area Directors (ADs) and IAB members for comments
       after an idea has solidified enough so that an elevator pitch can be
       given.  Also, it should be clear that if an AD or IAB member attends
       a side meeting, it is not necessarily a show of support.  They may
       simply be interested or often may be concerned or troubled with some
       aspect of the potential work and relation to existing work.  On the
       other hand, when an AD or IAB member declines to attend a side
       meeting, that is usually not a sign of disinterest or disapproval --
       these people have busy schedules, especially during an IETF week.

       In the initial stages of developing a proposal for new IETF work, the
       ability for interested and experienced participants to brainstorm is
       tremendously important.  Brainstorming is facilitated by direct,
       interactive, and high-bandwidth discussions.  This is clearly much
       more easily achieved in a smaller setting, where half-baked ideas can
       be dissected and developed.  This is often not possible in a larger

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       group.  Even worse, a badly run large meeting can sometimes "poison
       the waters" for a proposed idea by convincing the broader community
       that the proposal is confused, not ready, or otherwise uninteresting.

       Another reason to discuss new work proposals in smaller groups is
       scope creep, i.e., the tendency of an initially rather tightly scoped
       area of new work to expand, because people will argue that whatever
       the initial topic was, it should be expanded to include their
       particular item of interest.  This is harder to control in larger
       groups.  Keeping the scope of new work items narrow is important,
       because eventual chartering decisions are often much more difficult
       for larger items of new work than for smaller ones.

       It is important to understand that in the IETF, proposals for new
       work are judged based on their technical merits and on whether there
       is enough energy and interest in the community to complete the work
       in a timely manner.  This happens in the relevant working group, if
       one exists, or else during an official BOF session.  How many warm
       bodies fill a room during an unofficial side meeting has no influence
       on this decision and is not a good metric for reporting interest in a
       topic to the community or to employers.  Discussions about new work
       are often controversial, and people will show up just to watch the
       fireworks, learn about a new topic, or make sure the new work does
       not interfere with work they are already pursuing, without being
       interested contributing in some way to the actual proposal itself.

       Some side meetings are organized to discuss a topic that is also
       being discussed in an existing working group, either before or after
       the working group itself meets.  Some working groups call these side
       meetings "ad hoc sessions".  The fact that a side meeting is
       organized by a chair or key participant of a working group in order
       to discuss topics related to the working group does not make it any
       more official than other side meetings.  An "ad hoc session" is not
       an official working group session, and no decisions relevant to a
       working group can be made.  Working group consensus can only be
       established during official sessions or on the mailing list
       [RFC2418].

    3.  Where to Meet

       As the colloquial name "bar BOF" implied, such side meetings are
       traditionally held in bars or restaurants.  Recently, there has been
       a distinct shift towards holding such get-togethers in regular IETF
       meeting rooms.  One reason for this trend has been discussed in
       Section 2, namely, that an uncontrolled broadcast announcement
       requires over-provisioning of facilities.

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       A second reason for this trend is that some participants, e.g., non-
       native English speakers or participants with hearing difficulties,
       find it difficult to interact or follow a discussion in noisy
       environments, such as restaurants and especially bars.  The
       organizers of side meetings are encouraged to take this factor into
       consideration when finding a meeting place.  Quiet restaurants are
       not hard to find, and many offer private dining rooms at no extra
       charge for larger parties.

       A likely third reason why side meetings are increasingly held in IETF
       rooms is that the booking of such a room currently requires approval
       by an Area Director.  The reason for this practice is simply to make
       sure that IETF-paid rooms are used for meetings that are in the
       widest sense IETF-related.  However, the approval of a room request
       for a side meeting has been known to sometimes be reported as Area
       Director "support" for the topic of the meeting to the community or
       to employers.  No such support is expressed or implied when Area
       Directors approve room requests!  Many routinely say "yes" to every
       incoming request as long as there are meeting rooms available (and
       there are typically lots of meeting rooms available outside of normal
       working group meeting slots).

       Holding side meetings in IETF meeting rooms does not make them any
       more official or valid than get-togethers that happen in other
       places.  Participants have recently begun to list the times and
       locations of some side meetings on a wiki page, but that does not
       make them part of the official IETF agenda or otherwise change their
       unofficial status.

       IETF meeting rooms clearly do not provide the most supportive
       environment for side meetings that require brainstorming on a new
       technical proposal.  One reason is that the classroom-style seating
       often present in IETF meeting rooms tends to spread people out in
       rows, all facing towards a front presenter, which is good for
       presentations but bad for discussion.  Because IETF meeting rooms
       tend to be large and people have a natural tendency to spread out,
       holding a meeting in one often requires microphone use, which is
       cumbersome, slows a discussion down, and leads to "question-answer"
       dialogs between two people, which is much less effective than a group
       discussion around a restaurant table.

       Another reason is more pragmatic.  Because the organizers of
       unofficial get-togethers can only use IETF meeting rooms during times
       when they are not otherwise in use, such side meetings often happen
       during breakfast, lunch, dinner, or later in the evening.  This
       prolongs the time during which IETF participants are stuck in the
       same rooms they're stuck in for the rest of the day, and it prevents
       them from having a regular and at least somewhat relaxed meal.

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       Anecdotal evidence exists that at least one Area Director has not
       been able to set foot outside the IETF hotel for a stretch of several
       days during IETF 77.  (IETF 77 was held in Anaheim, CA, and the food
       options in and near the hotel were, let's say, of severely limited
       quality.)  It is unlikely that participants in the consequential
       mental and bodily state will make productive contributions to a side
       meeting or, in the case of Area Directors, will be extremely
       receptive towards new work proposals.

       Food, drink, and a relaxed atmosphere in which to have a discussion
       are an essential part of a successful side meeting, because they
       often need to happen during meal times.  IETF meeting rooms offer
       neither.

    4.  How to Meet

       Several of the recent side meetings that were held in IETF meeting
       rooms emulated official IETF meetings to a degree that made them
       indistinguishable from a regular working group meeting for the
       average IETF attendee.  This included detailed agendas, lengthy
       presentations, organizers who refer to themselves as "bar BOF
       chairs", emulating blue sheets (see Section 4.5 of [RFC4677]), and
       even hums and other consensus calls (see Section 5.2 of [RFC4677]).

       It is not clear as to why this has been happening.  One attempt at an
       explanation may be that holding a get-together in an IETF room and
       having the organizers behave like chairs behave during regular IETF
       sessions is causing a Pavlovian stimulus in the attendees.  Another
       explanation attempt is that an IETF meeting room simply does not
       allow many other forms of discussion.  Finally, some organizers may
       find the process to apply for an official BOF too complex or
       troublesome (and probably rightfully so) and so decide to simply
       mimic one, or they had applied for an official BOF, got turned down,
       and then decided to hold the same meeting as a side meeting.

       Whatever the reason for this development, it is reasonably obvious
       that running a side meeting with a focus on making quick progress on
       a technical proposal in a way that emulates running a working group
       session is not very productive.  Working group sessions follow
       certain procedures due to larger audiences, the need to establish
       formal consensus, etc., that a side meeting can do without.

       Having side meetings mimic working group meetings is also confusing
       to attendees.  In at least one case, some side meeting participants
       believed that they were attending an actual working group meeting,
       and incorrect press announcements were generated.  When side meetings
       take place at restaurants or elsewhere away from IETF meeting rooms,
       the chance for confusion is much lower.

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       Because the reasons for organizing such a get-together are diverse,
       this section is not making more specific suggestions, other than to
       note that meeting outside of an IETF meeting room is likely going to
       shift the dynamics sufficiently so that better interactions and
       results become possible.

    5.  When to Meet

       Side meetings are often scheduled following IETF evening plenaries,
       which sometimes end before the time indicated on the meeting agenda
       but have in the past also ended much later.  It is therefore useful
       to avoid scheduling side meetings that follow IETF plenaries at a
       fixed time.  Instead, it is recommended to schedule them relative to
       the end of the plenary, i.e., "X minutes after the end of the
       plenary".  That way, attendees do not need to wait around if a
       plenary finishes early and do not need to leave a plenary should it
       run late.

       Section 3 of [RFC5434] raises the issue that it is essential to
       understand all angles of a given problem for which IETF work is
       proposed.  This means that input from the community that can be found
       at IETF meetings is not all that should be considered.  It can be
       argued that input from other communities -- operator, research,
       regulatory, etc. -- is at least as important.  Hence, organizers
       should consider the value of holding side meetings at venues where
       such input can be more easily gathered, such as operator fora (RIPE,
       NANOG, etc.), research conferences, or other events.

    6.  Conclusions

       Side meeting organizers are encouraged to rekindle the original
       spirit behind them and organize them outside IETF meeting rooms, at
       venues with food and drink, for smaller groups, and in a way that
       does not needlessly mimic the way official IETF sessions are
       conducted.

       It can often be useful to discuss proposals for new IETF work face-
       to-face in an informal setting, but conference calls, email
       discussions, wikis, and other means for interactions are also
       effective at developing ideas, especially given the scheduling
       difficulties when busy individuals are involved during an IETF
       meeting.

       Finally, it is important to remember that all side meetings during an
       IETF week are purely informal and have no official status whatsoever.

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    7.  Security Considerations

       A security AD pointed out that people have been known to forget their
       laptops after side meetings held in real bars.  The organizers of
       side meetings should therefore remind any attending security ADs (and
       possibly others) to take their belongings with them after the side
       meeting ends or the bar closes, whichever happens first.

    8.  Acknowledgments

       The name and title of this document have been chosen to resemble
       those used by Thomas Narten for his guidelines document on holding a
       successful BOF [RFC5434], as a sign of appreciation for a document
       that has proven to be invaluable many times over.

       Several folks provided feedback and input on this document, including
       Jari Arkko, Fred Baker, Scott Bradner, Ben Campbell, Jorge Contreras,
       Spencer Dawkins, Ralph Droms, Wesley Eddy, Frank Ellermann, Adrian
       Farrel, Stephen Farrell, David Harrington, Russ Housley, Cullen
       Jennings, John Klensin, Al Morton, Robert Sparks, and Dan Wing.

       Lars Eggert was partly funded by [TRILOGY], a research project
       supported by the European Commission under its Seventh Framework
       Program.

    9.  Informative References

       [RFC2418]  Bradner, S., "IETF Working Group Guidelines and
                  Procedures", BCP 25, RFC 2418, September 1998.

       [RFC4677]  Hoffman, P. and S. Harris, "The Tao of IETF - A Novice's
                  Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force", RFC 4677,
                  September 2006.

       [RFC5434]  Narten, T., "Considerations for Having a Successful Birds-
                  of-a-Feather (BOF) Session", RFC 5434, February 2009.

       [RFC6722]  Hoffman, P., "Publishing the "Tao of the IETF" as a Web
                  Page", RFC 6722, August 2012.

       [TRILOGY]  "Trilogy Project", <http://www.trilogy-project.org/>.

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    Authors' Addresses

       Lars Eggert
       NetApp
       Sonnenallee 1
       Kirchheim  85551
       Germany

       Phone: +49 151 12055791
       EMail: lars@netapp.com
       URI:   http://eggert.org/

       Gonzalo Camarillo
       Ericsson
       Hirsalantie 11
       Jorvas  02420
       Finland

       EMail: Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com

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